Bernardo Bertolucci on Italian Westerns

From: THE FILM DIRECTOR AS SUPERSTAR

by Joseph Gelmis

This interview was held in Bertolucci's hotel suite with the assistance of Michele Barbieri, an interpreter, in the fall of 1968 at the sixth annual New York Film Festival.

G: Is it difficult for young Italian filmmakers to get financing because the Italian film industry is in trouble?

B: No, it's just the opposite. It's because the Italian industry doesn't have any problems. They won't risk any money. It's very established. "Ah, now we go western." We make a hundred westerns every year.

G: Isn't it possible for young filmmakers to work within that system and turn out an interesting western or gangster film, to make a few action films well and make a success so they can get the money for more personal films? It would still take less than four years in any case.

B: Yes, I can, I can. All the time the producers are asking me, "Why don't you make a western?" But I don't want to. Because I love westerns very much. The western means Howard Hawks and John Ford. It would be like asking John Ford to make a Pasolini film. The Italian westerns are not very good.

G: Even the Sergio Leone films?

B: Ah, Sergio Leone I like. But they are not westerns. They are something else. He is a very genial man. I wrote the first draft for the latest Leone film ONCE UPON A TIME...IN THE WEST.

G: The plot for that film sounds like a remake of UNION PACIFIC.

B: I was thinking of JOHNNY GUITAR, actually. Anyway, you know, that was a curious experience. My serious friends in Italy have accused me of selling out because I wrote for Sergio Leone, who is considered just a commercial moviemaker. But I worked for Leone because I admired him and thought it would be a good experience. And it was very educational. If Leone reads this, he will have to blush because the film had a $5,500,000 budget. I was paid $700 for a hundred page treatment, or $7 a page.

Finishing MADIGAN'S MILLIONS

From: SO YOU WANT TO MAKE MOVIES

My Life As An Independent Film Producer

by Sidney Pink

Back in Rome, the fighting began again as soon as my absence was noted. This time, Stanley tried to direct Dustin in how he wanted a tender moment with Elsa to be played. Dustin wanted no part of that and repeatedly played it his own way until, in total frustration, Stanley closed the set to await my return. Again we lost another day of work.

When I arrived at the set and found it closed, I was as angry as I have ever been. I rued the day I first saw Dustin Hoffman, and I could find no solution other than to finish the picture as best I could and get him out of our sight. By my constant presence and supervision of the set, we were able to get back the three days we were behind and finish our principal photography.

Dustin was still committed to another two weeks of dubbing in the studio. He was at the hotel awaiting his first call when I received a phone call from Mike Nichols. Mike was familiar with Dustin's work, but he wanted to know whether I felt Dustin was good enough to play the lead role in a picture he had signed to do for Joe Levine, THE GRADUATE. He explained the demands of the part and asked if I felt Dustin could play it. Disgusted as I was with the unprofessional way in which he acted with us, I had to tell Mike that in my opinion Dustin was so talented I honestly felt there wasn't a role written he couldn't play, then jokingly even Joan Crawford! Later events and TOOTSIE proved how right I was!

Mike asked if I would release Dustin for about ten days so he could fly back to California to test for the part. I told Mike we needed Dustin for dubbing in Rome for another two weeks, then I could release him. But Mike needed him immediately in order to close his casting and meet the start deadline imposed by Joe Levine. He added he would be personally responsible for Dustin's return to Rome to complete our work.

I told Mike that my experience with Dustin made me almost positive he would not return, but Mike insisted he would guarantee it. Against my better judgment, I let Dustin leave. I was right; Dustin never came back, and Mike was forced to pay for the studio, the dubbing crew, and Mitch Grayson's fare and expenses to do the work in Hollywood. Dustin was most uncooperative about even doing that, and Mitch had a rough time finishing. I never heard from Dustin again, nor did he ever attempt to help make the picture better or more playable.

I have never before voiced any of this but I think I am entitled to tell the story now. I recognize and appreciate Dustin Hoffman's great talent, but we did not deserve the treatment he accorded us. We gave him his start in motion pictures; we gave him the opportunity to appear in THE GRADUATE; and we paid him for his best efforts, which we never received. When our picture was released after THE GRADUATE had opened, his only comments were destructive. He disowned the picture by stating he was forced into doing this lousy European stinker. I wonder what his excuse is for ISHTAR, his bomb with Warren Beatty. I have never known anyone who was as ungrateful, but I still wish I had secured that three-picture option.

Gianetto di Rossi on Henry Fonda

Gianetto di Rossi (Makeup): Henry Fonda has the patience of a Carthusian monk, a quality he shares with a great many American and English actors. For certain scenes in the film he had to be made up to look thirty years younger. In addition to all the other makeup, I applied four layers of extremely rigid skin-tightener. He was very satisfied when Sergio Leone, encountering him on the set, greeted him without recognizing him. That evening, several layers of skin came off with the makeup. Well, the next morning he ordered me to make him up exactly the same way, and for love of the character, he endured this species of torture without complaining.

Shooting A THOUSAND AND ONE NIGHTS

From: SO YOU WANT TO MAKE MOVIES

My Life As An Independent Film Producer

by Sidney Pink

Just before we left for Rome to start MADIGAN'S MILLIONS, Mitch Grayson phoned me from Hollywood with news he had signed a contract for the development of the AUGIE MARCH script. MGM had budgeted $25,000 for the project but totally refused to discuss Stephen Spielberg as the director and co-scripter. Mitch was very upset since he felt about Stephen as I had felt about Dustin. But he announced he had found the perfect lead for A THOUSAND AND ONE NIGHTS, Jeff Cooper. He was so damned excited you would think he had found another Tyrone Power. I authorized him to sign Jeff Cooper to a multi-picture contract with options, but the only real commitment was for $1,000 a week for the eight weeks of NIGHTS.

Mitch returned five days later with his future star in tow and took personal charge of the production of the film. I assigned the director to Jose Maria Elorietta and my son Philip took the role of assistant to the producer. We shipped that crew down to Granada and NIGHTS became the first movie permitted to shoot in the Alhambra palace of the Moors. The picture was in production simultaneously with MADIGAN, so I received progress reports nightly from Philip by telephone since I was unable to leave the set in Rome.

That was a hairy time for us. MADIGAN was not going well as Dustin was a time bomb held in check only by my constant presence on the set, and my son's reports on the progress in Granada were troublesome. Despite my discussions with him, Mitch hadn't learned how to work with Elorietta, who as usual began drinking more and more until it got to where he started early in the morning. In only three weeks, they were behind schedule by eight days, and the find of the century, Jeff Cooper, was as clumsy as he was unphotogenic. I now had two potential disasters on my hands and was unable to do much about it. But since my problem in Granada seemed easiest to remedy, I flew there on an overnight milk flight from Rome. I arrived in the middle of the night, was met by my son, and went to our hotel headquarters.

The next morning I looked at some footage, and Jeff Cooper was worse than I thought. He had two left feet, and his sword fighting and acrobatics made him look like Grandma Moses without her paintbrushes. I called Mitch and Elorietta together and laid down the law. Elorietta had to stop drinking immediately, and Mitch was to stop interfering with the direction of the picture. He was production head, and his only responsibility was to see that Elorietta got everything he needed and stayed on budget and on schedule. I told them they had to make up the lost time or I would replace them. Elorietta knew me well enough to know that I not only meant it but that I was perfectly capable of taking over the direction myself. He agreed to stay sober if I would keep Mitch out of the artistic end and allow Elorietta to run the set as he had always done. We all agreed, although Mitch pouted childishly at losing face in his debut as producer.

I arranged for construction of the palace interiors in the Madrid studios so we could get off that expensive location. It is always much cheaper to work in the studio, even with the cost of constructing the sets and the studio rental. Control lies in your hands and you can shoot twenty-four hours a day if you wish. Lighting is easier, crews are smaller, and the cost of maintaining a crew away from home can become a major expense. I left Granada satisfied we could bring the film in on budget. I instructed Elorietta to use a double in every action scene of our hero and use Jeff only for close-ups, and that is how it finished.

[With this portrait of Jeff Cooper as physcially incompetent, the mystery of why he was cast opposite David Carradine in CIRCLE OF IRON, a film originally developed for Bruce Lee, deepens.]

Kirk Douglas on SPARTACUS

From: LET'S FACE IT

90 Years of Living, Loving, and Learning

by Kirk Douglas

Dalton Trumbo was one of the Hollywood Ten who received a one-year jail sentence. At the time, my production company, the Bryna Company, was producing SPARTACUS with backing from Universal Pictures. The book had been written by Howard Fast, who was also under scrutiny by McCarthy's committee. We had an all-star cast for this epic: Laurence Olivier, Peter Ustinov, Charles Laughton, Jean Simmons, and Tony Curtis. I played the part of Spartacus, a slave in Roman times who led a revolt against the emperor. I'm ashamed to admit that I joined the hypocrites by employing Dalton Trumbo secretly to write the script under the pseudonym of Sam Jackson.

Since he was not allowed to come to the studio, we would meet like thieves in the night at his house. He usually received us while soaking in the bathtub, with a parrot - a gift from me - perched on his shoulder. He wrote a wonderful script and we were in the middle of making a fantastic picture.

Our director, Anthony Mann, was a very nice guy whom the studio insisted on using. I was against it. A few weeks into the picture, the studio said, "Kirk, you were right. Fire Anthony Mann." That was very difficult for me but I did it. I felt that I owed him something, though, and a few years later I acted in a picture under his direction, THE HEROES OF TELEMARK.

It was the end of the week. Here was one of the biggest-budget pictures in Hollywood history shooting without a director. Then I heard that Marlon Brando was starring in ONE-EYED JACKS, which was being directed by Stanley Kubrick. Marlon fired Stanley and took over the direction himself. (He did a good job, too.) In a minute I was on the phone with Stanley and during the weekend arranged for him to become the new director of SPARTACUS...

Then the question came up as to what name we should use on the screen for the screenwriter. I felt awkward using "Sam Jackson". It was so hypocritical. Our country was in danger of losing one of our freedoms. Talented people were not allowed to use their names because McCarthy had spread such a veil of suspicion over them. What would happen next? It made me feel unclean.

I talked with my producer, Eddie Lewis, and Stanley. Stanley suggested, "Put my name on the screen as the writer."

I was shocked. "Stanley," I asked, "wouldn't you feel funny taking credit for a script you had nothing to do with?"

"I'm only trying to help you out," he answered.

I looked at Eddie and saw disgust in his face.

That night, in bed, I couldn't get it off my mind. I had to make a decision. I slapped the bed and Banshee [Kirk's dog.] jumped up and lay down next to me. I stroked his back - I could almost hear him purr. "Banshee," I asked, "how would you like to be called Rover? Here, Rover!"

Banshee looked at me quizzically.

I smiled and went to sleep. I had made my decision.

At the studio the next morning, I told Eddie and Stanley, "I've decided to use Dalton Trumbo's name on the screen."

Eddie smiled at me with approval. He was always against the blacklist.

Stanley looked at me, said, "You must be crazy," and left the room.

Eddie and I were stunned, but I was determined to put "Written by Dalton Trumbo" on the screen for the first time in ten years.

The next day I invited Dalton to the studio. I left a pass for him at the gate. He looked at Eddie and me and said with a wry smile, "This is the first time I have been in a studio in ten years. Thanks for giving me back my name."

It was the most important decision that I made in my career. We never held a press conference, but word got out. People said I had ruined my career, that I would never work again. Otto Preminger called from New York, quite upset, He was directing EXODUS, which Dalton Trumbo had also written under an assumed name. In his German accent he said, "Vat are you doing? Are you crazy? Don't do dat!"

I answered, "Otto, it's done."

He hung up the phone. Soon he held a press conference to announce that he would give credit to Dalton Trumbo as the writer of EXODUS. Otto was a smart producer. He didn't want to be caught using a nom de plume for Dalton Trumbo when I was using Trumbo's real name.

When SPARTACUS was released there were lots of reactions, both positive and negative: "Kirk, you're a hero." "Kirk, you're a shmuck!" "What's the matter, don't want to work in this town anymore?" Hedda Hopper, an important columnist at the time, lambasted me: "...from a book written by a Commie and the screen script written by a Commie, so don't go to see it."

A few people wrote threatening letters, but the sky didn't fall in. The blacklist was broken. And the movie was a success.

I can't think of anything in my life that made me more proud. Sometimes you just have to be the person your dog thinks you are.

[Of course Spartacus didn't revolt against the emperor. At the time of SPARTACUS, Rome was still a republic ruled by the Senate, as depicted in the movie. Rome's first emperor, Julius Caesar, appeared as a young officer in SPARTACUS - many years before his rise to power. - The usual story regarding the direction of SPARTACUS was that Douglas wanted Stanley Kubrick, with whom he had made PATHS OF GLORY, while Universal wanted Anthony Mann, with whom they had made a series of successful Westerns starring James Stewart. The usual way the story went was that after a week Douglas finally succeeded in getting Mann replaced by Kubrick, but in this telling Douglas refuted that perspective. Also some disputed Douglas' claim to have broken the Hollywood blacklist because Otto Preminger announced that he was crediting Dalton Trumbo for EXODUS. Here, Douglas established a timeline showing his action was first, and that Preminger followed but with a press conference.]

Making MADIGAN'S MILLIONS

From: SO YOU WANT TO MAKE MOVIES

My Life As An Independent Film Producer

by Sidney Pink

I returned to Madrid with all pictures cast, all production preparations in the works, and determined I was through with Westinghouse. Dick Pack was obviously aware I was up to something by the deaf ear I turned to his suggestions and my refusal to return his calls. Jay Shears told him I was making no further plans beyond RAGAN, the last script and cast approved by them. Mitch was receiving daily calls from Dick pleading to be told what we were up to, but to protect Mitch, I kept him in the dark about my future plans.

Mitch informed me he was on the verge of a deal with MGM who would advance the money to develop a script on AUGIE MARCH. He met a young director he felt had the sensitivity to bring the novel to the screen, and he would most likely not stay with us until the last picture of our present schedule was completed. He requested two weeks off to go to L.A. and discuss the deal with MGM and to conclude something with that talented young director, Stephen Spielberg. I agreed, offering to pay for his trip if he could find a promising leading man for A THOUSAND AND ONE NIGHTS.

[Of course, the talented young director is usually known as Steven Spielberg.]

Using our Italian company Domino Films as the official producer, we prepared a five-week shooting schedule for MADIGAN'S MILLIONS in Rome and hired a completely Italian crew with the exception of Macasoli, who was director of photography (the fancy new title the guild had dreamed up for the cameraman). We required a scratch track in sync with the film to make our dubbing job more acceptable. Most Italian actors couldn't speak English, so if we didn't have a soundtrack to guide us, we could never accomplish the quality demanded by American and British audiences. We spent five weeks fruitlessly trying to teach an Italian crew to stay silent while we were shooting, but we did manage to record enough to accomplish the job.

We brought Dustin to Madrid first to establish how the main character should be played, and it didn't take long to find out how unpleasant Dustin was to work with. I wish I could say nice things about him, but in our midst he was nothing but a pain: loud, constantly complaining, and always ready to pick a fight with Stanley Prager, whom he considered totally incompetent. Most of the crew considered Dustin obnoxious, and although they recognized his undeniable talent, his attitude often got in the way...

Those five weeks were pure misery. I had to remain close by every day in order to make certain there would be no repeat of the fracas I had seen develop. We had some very good Italian actors on the set, including Riccardo Garrone who played a comedy gangster in real style, and he was a joy to watch. His scenes with Dustin were truly funny, the only bright spots in what should have been a fun picture.

We were unable to get a date from George Raft when he would be available to shoot his part... The sequence could easily be shot in two mornings, but not without George Raft.

There must be some truth in the axiom that the good Lord keeps an eye on children, drunks, and fools, because I found my way out only after the gloom of despair had almost turned me into gelatin. I was pondering a sudden exile to China when I suddenly remembered I had a friend in Hollywood who could possibly get us out of this mess. Cesar Romero had told me that if I ever needed him and he was available, I could count on him.

My urgent plea for help on a desperate long-distance phone call gave Cesar the opportunity to prove again what a compassionate and warm human being is. He was the savior for my "sick flick". Cesar agreed to do it and didn't even ask, "How much?" He came to Rome on a weekend and did such a marvelous job that his performance stands out as the highlight of an otherwise lackluster picture. It proves that a man is judged by his deeds and not his doubts. This is why to this very day, Cesar Romero (now nearly eighty) is still very popular and still working; his class stands out as a beacon for others to follow.

The difference between Cesar Romero and the Dustin Hoffman we knew was as stark as black versus white. The memories Dustin left with us were sick and sorry.

Kirk Douglas on Elsa Martinelli

From: THE RAGMAN'S SON

by Kirk Douglas

I was very pleased with the cast we assembled for INDIAN FIGHTER, except for the lead of the Indian girl. We thought it would be easy to get somebody who fit the part. It was impossible. Every girl we auditioned seemed to be just some little starlet with a feather stuck on her head.

Then one day, Anne was looking through Vogue magazine. There was a shot of an Italian girl - long dark hair, dark eyes - coming up out of the water soaking wet, a man's shirt clinging to her voluptuous body. Anne said, "This girl would make a fantastic Indian." She did look terrific. We tracked her down - a model named Elsa Martinelli. She was in New York, just arrived from Rome. And she was going with Oleg Cassini. I had to laugh at the way Oleg kept popping in and out of my life. When I met Gene Tierney, she was just being divorced from Oleg. When I met Irene Wrightsman in Palm Springs, she was with Oleg. Now, I try to get Elsa Martinelli, and here's Oleg.

So I talked to Oleg. He said, "She hardly speaks any English, and that with a terrible Italian accent." I looked at her picture. She looked like a beautiful Indian girl to me. Besides, how does an Indian girl talk? Precisely what is an Indian accent, and how many people have ever heard a real one? And how bad could Elsa's accent be? I called her in New York, and told her who I was.

"No, no beeleeva you, no beeleeva you." She had just come back from seeing 20,000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA, and thought somebody was playing a joke on her.

I said, "Really, I am Kirk Douglas, and I want you to come out and test for a part in a movie I'm making."

"No, no. You no Keeka Doogalas."

I didn't know what the hell to do.

Then she had an idea. "You Keeka Doogalas, you singa da song inna da movie."

Over the telephone, I had to audition for Elsa Martinelli, three thousand miles away. I started to sing, " 'Gotta whale of a tale to tell you, lads.' "

Elsa started to shriek. "Dio mio! Keerka Doogalas! Keeka Doogalas!"

I arranged for her to come out to California to test. She was gorgeous and had a wonderful gamine quality that was perfect for the part. She had the potential to become a big star. I put her under contract to Bryna for several pictures. We gave her only about a page and a half of dialogue, never more than a couple of words at a time. She was a big hit in the picture, got a lot of publicity, including the cover of Life magazine.

People were after her. She was getting movie offers, became very impatient at the chance to make more money than I was paying her. I kept saying, "Elsa, if you are patient, I will make you a big star." I wanted her to play the female lead in a book I had just bought - SPARTACUS. But it was a big project, and would take time to set up. Elsa kept hounding me, saying I was holding her down because I had her under contract. Finally I thought, the hell with it. I said, "I don't make my money by putting people under contract. You're too much trouble. Here! You're free!" I tore up the contract.

After that, she did some bad pictures that went nowhere and did her no good. She was very unhappy, and realized that maybe I could help her with her career. She wanted to come back and be under contract to me.

I said, "O.K., Elsa, how much money are you going to pay me?"

"Whadda you mean?"

"How much money will you pay me if I put you under contract?"

She said, "No, no, no. You supposed to pay me."

"Oh no, Elsa. You're too much trouble. If you want me to put you under contract, you have to pay me."

And that was the end of my contract with Elsa Martinelli.